Jason Mlicki (00:01.805)
So Jeff, I’m wondering, were you a fan of MTV growing up? Were you into MTV?

Jeff McKay (00:07.61)
I want my MTV. Heck yeah. I burn more hours of my life watching Pat Benatar and the cars and you name it. So yes, I was an MTV fan.

Jason Mlicki (00:15.277)
Yes.

And the VJs and the astronaut with the flag and the bouncing on the moon, right? Yeah, huge fan. Do you know what the first video ever played on MTV was? It’s pretty, everyone knows this, I think you probably know it.

Jeff McKay (00:25.862)
Yeah? Yeah?

Kelly Indrieri (00:32.344)
Yeah, I know.

Jeff McKay (00:33.468)
Video killed the radio star.

Jason Mlicki (00:35.339)
Video killed the radio star. So I was thinking about this today and I was curious what your thought is. Are we reliving this? Is AI killing the internet?

Jeff McKay (00:47.992)
AI is killing the thought leadership star.

Jason Mlicki (00:52.269)
That’s not good for me.

Jeff McKay (00:54.12)
Hahaha!

Jason Mlicki (00:56.749)
Well, see, thought the internet was supposed to be this democratizing force. You know, like it was going to cut out the middle man, eliminate the intermediaries and power to the people, right? Like, and it feels like it’s kind of going full circle. It feels like we’re going back to a time where, I guess the essence of the question is, is media relations king again? Is PR, I guess, maybe media relations more narrowly. I’m going to use the terms interchangeably and our guests are going to correct me.

Is it King again? We’re going to find out. Okay. So let’s, let’s introduce our guests. So joining us on the show today are Robin Belanti and Kelly Andreary from Offleash PR. Offleash PR was named by Forbes as one of America’s best PR agencies and as an Inc power partner. have no idea what that means, but I’m sure they’re going to tell us what a power partner is. They help companies at any stage drive measurable growth through a mix of media, content, social analysts, influencer and marketing strategies. That’s a lot of stuff.

Jeff McKay (01:28.328)
Well, we’re gonna find out.

Jason Mlicki (01:58.253)
Robin is the firm’s CEO. I didn’t ask you, Robin, if you founded the firm, but you can tell us in a minute. And Kelly is the vice president of integrative marketing, and they are going to talk to us about the role of media relations in the AI era. And they’re also going to talk to us about VJs. Robin and Kelly, welcome to the show.

Robin Bulanti (02:20.846)
Thank so much for having us.

Kelly Indrieri (02:21.454)
Thank you.

Jason Mlicki (02:24.279)
Thanks for coming. So, okay, let’s start at the top here. I think I’m the person who kind of probably got us here in a way, but I’ve been doing a ton of research on getting found in generative AI search. We’ve seen our clients see lots of traditional search traffic decline. And one of the recurring themes is this just sort of importance of being visible in high profile and mainstream media. just start at the top. What’s your take?

Is media relations sort of like the new critical marketing strategy in the AI world? Is this the most important thing now? Or what’s your take?

Robin Bulanti (03:05.912)
Yeah, I can take a stab at that. You know, of course we don’t think it’s a new thing. think media relations has always been a really important piece of the mix. And I do agree it’s more critical than ever now, I think, you know, as a marketing and a communication strategy. And in a way, AI is just highlighting the need for that kind of authentic reputation and credibility building. And of course, media isn’t the only critical lever to pull.

but it is really important. And I think especially now when everyone is thinking about how they show up in search and how our buyer is going to find us, I think, you know, that media visibility, it is really important. And you need to take, I mean, Kelly will touch on this too, obviously her role, but you know, we were talking about this earlier. It’s just so important to take an integrated approach. So media is a really important piece, but it’s just one piece of the mix.

Kelly Indrieri (04:03.812)
Absolutely.

Robin Bulanti (04:04.962)
Yeah, and I do think like earned media especially,

It kind of remains on top. mean, it’s just, think we’re having the spotlight on that right now, but it is that importance of building those real relationships for companies and building that trust and, you know, having a really differentiated point of view. I don’t think thought leadership is dead. By the way, I love the MTV analogy. You’ve got the right audience here for that, and myself. But yeah, I mean, we’re looking at

Kelly Indrieri (04:28.696)
Heh.

Yes?

Robin Bulanti (04:35.316)
not just landing coverage, but how we build credibility in all the ways. So communities and analysts and influencers and content and just different ways to give those answers, those searchable answers to what your customer is looking for so that you show up.

Kelly Indrieri (04:50.596)
Absolutely.

Jeff McKay (04:51.336)
Go ahead, Kelly.

Kelly Indrieri (04:54.052)
Yeah, I was going to say, I couldn’t agree more. think that’s part of the reason while we’re called FLEASH PR, we really do take, I think Jason, said that’s a lot of things and it’s intentional. It’s intentional because having both Robin and I worked with so many companies and some are very separated. It’s kind of like the old DevOps analogy of developers and operations, not working together and them coming together. We saw lot of companies were marketing

Jason Mlicki (05:04.64)
Yeah.

Kelly Indrieri (05:24.428)
And comms were almost siloed reporting into different orgs, owning different things. And we recognize the importance and now an AI search more than ever of ensuring that your brand appears searchable, skimble, cited, credible in across every single lever you have from a marketing communications perspective. Cause if marketing is saying one thing and your executive or media is saying another, not going to, you may show up in AI search, but your brand won’t appear correct.

right? It won’t be telling the story you want it to tell. So, couldn’t agree more that it’s really about every element of your strategy. Credibility and citation is king and media helps you do that.

Jason Mlicki (06:09.419)
Is that what the off leash is? heard there was a dog barking. Is that why we’re off leash?

Robin Bulanti (06:12.46)
Hahaha

Kelly Indrieri (06:13.372)
sorry. No, I apologize. This is why I closed my door, but there are four of them. we can… So yes, yes. They’re not even in the room. That’s… They’re not even in the room. That’s what’s disturbing, and you can still hear them. Sorry about that.

Jason Mlicki (06:19.117)
They’re really off leash. They’re running the house.

Robin Bulanti (06:22.955)
It’s early.

Jason Mlicki (06:27.711)
Yeah, that’s great. I have so many questions.

Robin Bulanti (06:27.725)
But I will say like kind of your Well, real quick on your MTV analogy to you know, I will say there’s like it is a new era in a way. I mean, there’s just a lot of like macro trends happening to media too that are like that landscape is always changing and traditional media is consolidating. There’s more media behind a paywall. I think new media is growing importance podcasts, you know.

We’re here at the podcast today, a number of sub stacks. Like there’s all kinds of media we’re looking at too, but I do think it is, it does remain king or queen. Yeah.

Kelly Indrieri (07:04.26)
Yeah, that’s a really good point.

Jeff McKay (07:06.792)
Well, I think if you were to ask any thought leader, you can only place your thinking in one place.

The answer is going to be something like the Harvard Business Review.

Kelly Indrieri (07:22.116)
Hmm.

Jeff McKay (07:24.102)
So that to me is that curation is becoming even more important because as Jason said, the decentralization and democratization of distribution has just gone wild. That people are now looking for that expert who’s saying this is the best of.

Kelly Indrieri (07:42.283)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff McKay (07:53.897)
And to me, it’s perfectly intuitive for AI to start doing that versus just the backlinks or keyword stuffing ruined SEO in so many ways.

Jason Mlicki (08:09.537)
Yeah. It, Robin, is it, it more when you think about this, is it more or less important to get, you know, a media entity talking about your company, like your client’s company, or to get their thinking placed? Like, how do you prioritize those two things? It’s one thing to get an article placed or as, as Jeff just pointed out as a thought leader. It’s another thing to get them just talking about your company for whatever reason. Like, how do you, how do you

weigh those two things in terms of priority. I mean, either from a media relations strategy or from an AI strategy, I guess either one really.

Robin Bulanti (08:47.896)
Yeah, I mean, I think the quality counts. So that’s one thing. I mean, I feel like it used to be so much about quantity and you you do want to be everywhere, but in the right way. So, I mean, we’re big believers that the quality counts. And I think Jeff, you mentioned like one publication, like the publication might look different for different companies, right? It matters for different buyers where you show up. a lot of companies…

you know, especially young companies will say, well, we need to be in like the Wall Street Journal or we need to be in, you know, ex publication, but it isn’t really the same for everyone because it might not be what your buyers are reading. So, you know, there there’s that piece, but I know your question is more, you know, does it matter to be covered just to be covered or to be have your thinking sort of included, you know, that we look at different things like features and mentions and, know, you kind of want your point of view out there. I think we are big believers in the

quality piece. So that doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to be a long feature article, but it does need to be about the right topic. Because if you’re showing up in articles that have nothing to do with what your buyers care about, is that really moving the needle? So, you know, it can look different for different companies, but one thing we do is we, our media strategy is customized for every single different company we work with, just the way your work is too. So

We sit down with a company and look at like, what are their business goals? What are they trying to do in the next year, the next two years? And then we kind of back into the strategy, the overall strategy. So, you know, marketing PR, all of it. But media is a piece of that. And I think that’s what we look at. And then we typically will come up with kind of a targeted media list, a top tier media list. That’s something we want to try and get into. And that’s what we really believe is going to move the needle. So to answer your question, I do believe

quality over quantity in that regard. And in terms of pickup, I Kelly’s doing a lot of work in that area. I think this is changing too, like what the really important sources are, you know, across the web, but that that’s changing too.

Kelly Indrieri (10:47.3)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, is. Yeah, I would agree with that. think too. You have to talk to media to get them to talk about you too. So you see things like the Forbes AI 50 list. You want to be in the best of lists, right? From these third parties. You want to make sure you’re talking to Gartner and talking to independent analysts. You want to make, we’re seeing this wave into more independent journalism, right? Where these huge writers and players that would went, you know, that are well respected, well known, are now have their own

newsletter, substack their own mini publication. So that rise in independent journalism is also important. But something we keep a pulse on in terms of AI search is what publications are the major three, I mean, Claude aside, but that people actually ask questions of. obviously chat, CPT, perplexity and Google AI overviews, right? So what are they citing most? What publications matter most to them, especially when it comes to B2B tech?

buyers because that’s who our clients care about and enterprise tech buyers. And you need to be surprised if you look at answers. A lot of times it’s still kind of angle or it’s something like that. So it’s not always Wall Street Journal. So it’s really also backing into making that a part of our strategy. You want to be the right answer. You want to be on certain lists like Forbes AI 50. Yeah, you got to apply, but you also have to know the reporters.

Jason Mlicki (12:13.709)
Are you seeing a convergence or divergence when I, and maybe clarify what I mean. Are the generative AI tools citing the same sources that buyers are citing or is there a divergence there where it’s like buyers are trending towards, know, I don’t know, whatever fast company and the AI tools are relying on forums like you just said. Like, are you, what are you seeing?

Kelly Indrieri (12:37.646)
Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, what I’m seeing is that we’re getting more more questions from our clients about how do you appear in AI search, right? I think it was back in May or June that we wrote our first blog on this following the Google I.O. conference. And when Google says basically we’re moving away from SEO in some ways because they saw the dip in it, right, we started to realize that, OK, something’s happening here, right?

And so, yes, it’s important to think about what your buyers are reading. So for example, if you’re telling to an engineer, you might want to make sure that your stuff is showing up on dev.to or on things which is also cited in AI search. If it’s a C level buyer, obviously Wall Street Journal, things like that still are incredibly important. But you also have to look at when someone asks a question of these search engines, what’s coming up?

Right. People aren’t clicking through 10 blue links anymore. who’s being, how like, how is it being cited most? Right. What are those external sources? And then bringing that back. what’s interesting thing we found is a resurgence in press releases. You know, a lot of people moved to doing a blog and sure, if you’re an anthropic or if you’re Google, that’s good. You’re going to be okay. Right. Because you’re also highly cited on search, press releases, PR newswire, business wire show up as cited sources continually. So it’s

So important to look at every element of a media strategy and make sure it’s structured appropriately.

Jason Mlicki (14:08.673)
Along those same lines, you seeing a, Jeff and I have talked about this, we did an episode on, it was originally coined the decline of trust. I think, Jeff, I could be wrong. But one of my contentions in there was that we’re living through a shift in what’s trusted and who’s trusted. And I point this more to younger people. And the example I give constantly is my niece who’s 25 years old, who does not trust any mainstream media brands, but trusts individual people immensely.

And most those individual people to your point are independent journalists that came out of mainstream media brands. So it’s like, I don’t trust Fox, but I trust Tucker Carlson. I don’t trust, you know, XYZ, but I trust so-and-so. Are you seeing that? Are you seeing like a decline in like some of the most trusted brands in New York time? Are you seeing that a decline there and lifts elsewhere? Or is it just kind of more of? There’s a question in there somewhere.

Kelly Indrieri (14:38.403)
Yeah.

Kelly Indrieri (15:05.06)
No

Robin Bulanti (15:05.102)
I think it is. I mean, it’s changing. And like you said, you know, Jason, where people are getting their news is different. And I think we saw that in particular in the last year, you know, the rise of really the importance of podcasts and who the trusted voices are. And it, wasn’t your traditional media as much. It’s very interesting. mean, there is a lot of change happening right now. And I think it’s funny. I did you say your niece or your daughter? mean, I don’t know. Like, you know, a lot of

Jason Mlicki (15:33.581)
Thank you.

Robin Bulanti (15:34.934)
Yeah. And a lot of the kids are getting their news on TikTok. Like this is just what’s happening. so I think that that’s actually almost more of a reason to I mentioned it’s quality over quantity. But there is there is an argument for also getting your message out there. You asked about point of view, getting it in a number of different places because people are looking at different places. But I think, know, number one, buyers are.

They are really relying on that AI search. mean, there’s just no question. They’re not going directly to your website. They’re not going directly. You know, you really do have to make sure you have a story and you have it out there in the right places. You’re consistent. You’re getting pickup. mean, all of that, but it is, it is changing. Certainly.

Jason Mlicki (16:19.085)
It’s like the ultimate walled garden, Like ChatGPT is the ultimate walled garden. You’d never leave once you’re in there because you don’t really have to.

Robin Bulanti (16:25.111)
Yeah.

Kelly Indrieri (16:25.996)
It’s so true because you don’t have to and you can just read. mean, think about that attention spans, right? Or also there’s studies out there that say they’re shorter, right? So this seems like kind of a natural revolution evolution. People don’t want to read something that’s going to take them 20 minutes, right? They’re used to 60 second, you know, sorry, 60 seconds of like content information. That’s good. Now I want to turn my attention elsewhere, right? Because of Instagram and TikTok and

Facebook and all of those things. And so it’s really, really critical, I think, given all of that, that you consider, you know.

non-traditional media a little bit more, like we’re seeing a real resurgence in social and people getting their news out there too. I think there was a study from Pew Research that just came out that found that 21 % of adults get their news from news influencers on social media. And then among 18 to 29, that jumps to 38%. So five times higher. So we are looking at that and considering it. know, like they want snackable bites of information.

That’s critical, yeah. I guess social matters there too.

Robin Bulanti (17:43.458)
And content, mean, content is a big piece of our business too. Like I think that making sure you’re putting out content that is very actionable and searchable. I think content is really important too. And not just content that lives on your site, but like again, from a media lens, like content we’re going out and placing in these trusted sources. And there is an opportunity to do that. And I think that becomes really important too as a

Kelly Indrieri (17:56.868)
Yes, give her a roll. Yep.

Robin Bulanti (18:12.942)
piece of the strategy.

Jeff McKay (18:16.22)
That makes me curious. If you could only place or build equity in one place, is it the company? Is it the founder? Is it the vision? Or is it the individual content pieces that you’re trying to place? I know the right answer is all the above.

But.

Robin Bulanti (18:48.322)
I mean, the founder can be a very powerful.

Robin Bulanti (18:55.374)
I’m to be careful about a word there. But I think that is a very powerful thing to activate in terms of a company like that. If you have a great founder that can tell the story, that we can build relationships with the media, that can talk directly to buyers, that becomes a voice in a way that it’s different than the other pieces you mentioned. So yes, of course, our answer is going to be all of the above. But we love to work with the founders, especially

earlier stage companies, I think it’s so important because that point of view becomes very important. They’re trying to stand out, you know, sometimes against a ton of companies and it’s very noisy out there. So I think the founder becomes very important. Everything else is a piece of that. mean, it’s the vision, it’s a little less about the product than hopefully, you know. So I think you can do a lot with that. That would be my take. I don’t know if everyone else would agree or disagree, but.

Kelly Indrieri (19:54.693)
I mean, think it’s like, think back to when we do media trainings with exec spokespeople, we say things like speak in sound bites, right? Repeat your message three times. those, if a CEO or co-founder or founder can do that well, then the marketing engine will as well. Does that make sense? So that means the content will be more likely to repeat the same message, speak in sound bites, the website scheme will be correct, all of those things because they have someone.

that’s very clear on who they are, where they stand and why it matters. And, you know, I think of people like when you think of Anthropic, you think of Dario and you think of Chachi B.T. you think or OpenAI you think of Sam, right? Jensen Wong, NVIDIA, right? So the founder is such a, even Mark Benioff in Salesforce. mean, that’s their, that personality behind the company is what gets more people excited to talk about you, which equals

more citations from third parties across LLMs.

Robin Bulanti (20:57.132)
And by the way, sometimes it’s not the CEO, right? It could be the CTO, could be an evangelist, could be like, it is finding the right voice. So I mean, it doesn’t even necessarily have to be the founder.

Kelly Indrieri (21:00.034)
Yeah, that’s true.

Jason Mlicki (21:10.285)
So is that, so I guess I’m gonna put some answers in your mouth here. Do you think at the end of the day, you’re better off putting more priority on the founder than the company if given the opportunity, if you’ve got a founder that’s got the voice? I sort of have this thing, I feel like stories are the new oil. It’s like you look at like, Tesla’s the perfect example. Like, mean, Elon Musk, that guy can weave a story like nobody’s business and he can turn nothing into.

Kelly Indrieri (21:24.516)
Thank

Jason Mlicki (21:38.793)
of dollars in value with nothing more than just a story because there’s really no other way to explain the kind of like astronomical valuations of that company relative to the rest of the automotive sector. Anyway, I guess I’m kind of saying, I guess I’m asking the question, would you be more likely to try to push forward an individual when given the opportunity? Yeah. To carry the company voice.

Robin Bulanti (21:59.886)
than the company itself? Well, I think again, I’m focused on media because I know that’s the topic of our podcast today. So from a media standpoint, media wants the stories, they want the voices, they want what their audience cares about, not necessarily what the company does. So I’m looking at that pretty.

Jason Mlicki (22:10.444)
Yeah.

Robin Bulanti (22:22.924)
black and white, like if you have a strong voice, that’s going to cut through for media, whether it’s content, whether it’s an interview, doesn’t matter, know, podcast doesn’t matter, but that’s going to cut through more than us going out and pitching a company or a product. So from a media lens, yes.

Kelly Indrieri (22:38.36)
Yep.

Jason Mlicki (22:41.897)
And does the messenger trump the message? it the, you know what I mean? Like the saliency of the messenger more important than the message itself? you know, how do think about that?

Robin Bulanti (22:47.182)
You

Robin Bulanti (22:59.618)
I mean, that’s a good…

Kelly Indrieri (22:59.65)
I mean, I think, well, go ahead, bro.

Robin Bulanti (23:02.593)
No, please.

Kelly Indrieri (23:03.96)
I was going to say, I think that the messenger should be delivering the right message, right? So it’s, again, it’s like, it’s, I think on a, if you go to many websites and some, this is a place where I see companies, maybe not, not all, but some aren’t as successful. There’s so much information to consume, right? It’s like, can you just give me three reasons why you’re different or why we, you know, what you’re going to help me do? Like it’s, you know, when you think of it that way, it’s like, I’m not looking for

I want to answer my problem or the benefits I’m going to receive, right? But they’re so focused on talking about themselves. So think the real opportunity with the founder is to, or the executive, let’s say the CEO, whomever it might be, if they can speak to a bigger story and I always say, what’s that aha moment when you’re talking to a customer? That’s the things you should be talking about, right? When they say we choose you because

That’s what people care about. And those are the questions they’re asking of LLMs to bring it back there, right? So if the founder can do that, what I find is, or the CEO, I find that the marketing team will follow suit in a way. It’s like then, okay, we’re gonna make sure our website contents on message and things like that, because at the end of the day, they’re dictating the story, right?

website it’s important, it’s critically important to LLMs that your content be strong, you flood it with new content, all of that. from a media perspective, I agree, it’s the executive can’t tell the story, then I don’t think any of your other assets will.

Robin Bulanti (24:41.324)
Yeah. And I think companies, I you you need a point of view and you need someone to bring that to market, right? It has to be consistent, has to be repeatable, has to be authentic. And like that typically is founder or X, whoever that like main spokesperson or spokespeople are, has to be, they have to be communicating that point of view.

Kelly Indrieri (25:01.582)
Yeah. People trust people, right? And so if you show up and people associate your brand with someone who’s really thought provoking, interesting, has an interesting backstory, is willing to be a bit human to talk about the big issues facing companies or the world or whatever and how they’re working to solve that, that’s going to get you a lot of street cred.

right across folks and people are going to be more interested in than understanding what your business does because again, I mean, it’s who you trust, right? And sometimes who you don’t, but at least they’re out there. and it enables you to make a decision as a buyer, I think.

Jason Mlicki (25:47.209)
So let’s shift gears a little bit. Let’s take the flip side of this. When your clients get it wrong, when they approach media relations incorrectly or they’re struggling with it when you come in the door, what do you most frequently see? How do they get it wrong?

Kelly Indrieri (26:10.28)
say from my perspective is talking too much about themselves. Like, you know, this is the speeds and feeds are the because again, we’re in B2B tech, obviously. it’s, you know, and it’s very much like, or, but like drinking their own Kool-Aid a bit like, but we’re the best thing ever. It’s like, okay, prove it to me. Prove it to me. I believe you and I love that you’re passionate and you believe you’re doing something so remarkable. But I think what they get wrong then is that they forget to

pull back and again consider.

Kelly Indrieri (26:44.622)
what they’re helping to solve, what they’re doing, why they’re there, communicating that effectively and not just say, well, all we’re gonna talk about is our technology. okay, but it’s not gonna get you where you need to go. I would say from a media perspective, not sometimes something we run into, are pretty common, right? No, like.

Robin Bulanti (27:05.505)
Yeah. And sometimes too, when we like, if we come into a new company and we’re doing our research, obviously, and we’re looking at everything that’s out there. I mean, I’m going to go back to the consistency thing. Like if you have a lot of different mixed messages out there in the market, it’s not going to help you. It’s not going to help buyers find you. It’s not going to help you be.

visible in AI search, all the things we’re talking about and that, you know, that’s not just your website. That’s not just the content and it is media too. And if you’re out there saying a lot of different things and not on message, it really creates like confusion in the market. And so sometimes we’ll be coming into a new company and that’s, that’s a piece of feedback we’ll give is like, you really need to like, go back to basics and get your message really consistent and then make sure that that’s what you’re always bringing.

Kelly Indrieri (27:52.228)
Thanks.

Robin Bulanti (27:54.796)
out there and the more spokespeople you have, the more challenging that gets. if you’re all kind of singing the same song, you’re going to show up better. And that is a mistake I think companies make. And especially as they get bigger, that happens, right? There’s a lot of different things out there. There might even be a bunch of baggage that’s out there from it. So you kind of need to clean some of that up too.

Jason Mlicki (28:18.625)
Yeah, it’s funny, Jeff, it reminds me of we’ve talked about this when we have great thought leaders on the show, people that are, you know, well-respected authors or published authors and they own an issue. One thing that’s remarkable is how good they are at bringing the any question, any conversation back to what their point of view and back to their stories. They’ll pull from a well of stories. They’ll say, these are my five stories. And they bring those five stories out in every situation, every possibility, every possible chance they have.

Kelly Indrieri (28:40.576)
Absolutely.

Kelly Indrieri (28:47.874)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Mlicki (28:48.173)
So it’s interesting.

Kelly Indrieri (28:51.234)
Yeah, but they do that in a larger context, right? So it’s not about talking about your company is a good thing. You want to keep that out talking about the value proposition, but you need to be able to pivot. You know, that’s one of those media trading 101 tips. You you pivot the conversation to where you want it to go. You repeat messages consistently. You have your bank of stories to tell. that way, you know, you’re going to show up more. You’re just in every sense of the world and people are going to understand you and understand where you’re coming from.

but your ability to be able to pivot or put it in a larger context is also.

Jeff McKay (29:27.28)
I’d be curious when you work with companies, what’s their understanding of what media relations actually is? I would think a lot of our listeners have not really been doing media relations, don’t really understand exactly what it is. It may, may not even, I have this conversation with my kids regularly. when they’re watching,

the news, meet the press or this week, you know, that these are just message points that are coming out, that this really isn’t news. These are message points. And how do you work with people that don’t really understand the process and don’t want to be politicians? They just want the results so they can grow their business.

Robin Bulanti (30:22.904)
I mean, I do think a lot of our jobs, maybe all of us here, it’s education. A big piece is education. mean, there is confusion around how media relations works, what it is, even public relations, right? mean, so a lot of times we’re really spending time on that education piece. And I mentioned, a company may come to us and just think all we need is

Kelly Indrieri (30:29.43)
Okay.

Robin Bulanti (30:50.698)
ex-publication, right? I think you mentioned, Jeff, like Harvard Business Review or Wall Street Journal. You don’t just pick up the phone and get in those publications. mean, those are long game. There’s, you know, you really need to have various specific type of story. And so I do think a big piece of our job is education.

And we know the media, we’ve built relationships over many, years. We know what it’s, what it’s going to take and what companies won’t be in those publications or can’t be in those publications at this point, or it might take a customer, you know, anyway. So a big piece of that is, education. And we do work with a lot of people that don’t understand the process because maybe they haven’t done it before. Maybe they’re first time founders, maybe, you know, they just haven’t done it before. so.

It’s a partnership. And I think a big piece of that upfront is, you know, sitting down and really understanding, like I said earlier, like what the business is trying to do. And then you, you map the media strategy to that. It isn’t the same for everyone. So, you know, it’s education, it’s partnering on it. It’s making sure we’re, we’re all comfortable with the process, what it’s going to look like. And also what’s going to come out the other side, like what, what it’s going to, what are we working towards? You know, how are we going to measure that success around the media? So.

Anyway, that’s a long-winded way of saying, know, I think it’s just education, just like in any business.

Jason Mlicki (32:17.739)
Yeah, I think it’s interesting in this conversation. I have this sense and I could be wrong, but I have this sense that clients probably show up to you and just and they think they’ve got it all figured out and they just need your help because you’ve got the media relationships and you’re just going to magically get them in the right places. And I think that what I took away from this conversation was very much that.

most of time they don’t have it all figured out. They don’t know what the point of view is. They don’t know what the message is. They don’t know what’s going to resonate. They don’t know how they fit in the news cycle. They don’t know who even should carry the message. And they certainly don’t know how to address the media even if they get the opportunity. And so it’s like there’s like seven layers of issues that they have to have to work through before they’re going to have the success they want. And it seems like you’re a great partner for that. let’s let’s Jeff, let’s take it to kind of close here.

I guess maybe the closing question I have for you in general is how should clients be thinking about this sort of rise of generative AI and what should they be doing at this moment in time with this? What should they be maybe doing differently than they’re doing now? What should be their priorities, I guess, right now? Does that make sense?

Robin Bulanti (33:38.264)
Yeah, I think a couple things we’ve talked about.

Kelly Indrieri (33:39.296)
Mm-hmm.

Robin Bulanti (33:44.386)
Today, think media is really important. I know we’re talking about media strategy today. I think that is why most companies come to an agency like ours. It is the relationships, is understanding the strategy. But I do think it’s, thinking about everything as really integrated across channels, it does take a strategic mix of all of those different levers to be successful and show up. I think that’s number one.

making sure you’re doing the right mix. I also think we talked about point of view. I don’t think thought leadership is dead. So I do think it’s really important to have a point of view and have someone that brings that to market, you know, so that customers can find you.

Kelly Indrieri (34:26.966)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think expert visibility is key. Like AI favors named sources. That’s just the way it is. Right. So elevating executives and thought leaders with media analysts, community engagement is really, really critical. so yeah, definitely would double down on that one. Yeah. And I would also say like, sorry, consistency. was going to say in like freshness matter, like meaning outdated content on your website or you were

Robin Bulanti (34:50.4)
And then I…

Kelly Indrieri (34:59.628)
You’ve evolved as a company over 10 years and most of the media and analyst reports call you, let’s say a storage company when in fact you are no longer that you’re a data platform now, right? But you once were so like flood the LLMs with the new content all the time, right? So your brand is not misrepresented. I think that’s a big thing too, that we help them do. Sorry, go ahead Robin.

Robin Bulanti (35:25.006)
No, I think that’s it. think it’s integrated, the mix, kill silos. I think it’s be consistent and I mean, it’s so simple, but have really clear goals together that you’re working towards.

Kelly Indrieri (35:35.799)
Yeah, absolutely. And I would say like, just to close on that point too, it’s consistently monitoring how your brand shows up against your competitors in those LLMs, right? It’s all the search engines. So ensuring that you’re tracking it, right? And being able to say, okay, ask it a question, right? Are you the answer? If you are in the answer, is the answer wrong? Because that’s not going to help you, And

then be able to track it consistently. It’s something we do here. We have a free AI visibility search score and audit where people just fill in name of company, category or market, and then three to four competitors. And then we can turn out a report that essentially allows them to see this is where you stand against your competitors. This is how you’re showing up. This is areas you need to improve. Here’s where you’re strong. And then let’s look at it again in 90 days. And that’s something that’s kind of important.

for our clients to understand something we’re really on top of and it helps drive our PR, marketing and media strategy. Because we see where the gaps are and where we can be better, a better partner. Yeah.

Jason Mlicki (36:43.497)
sense. All right, so last question for you. What?

Jeff McKay (36:46.002)
So Jason, you have one last question? I have one last question.

Kelly Indrieri (36:52.45)
Yeah.

Jason Mlicki (36:53.397)
My question is very tactical. What is it you want to ask?

Jeff McKay (36:56.824)
you alluded to this media report, this audit report. If somebody wanted to take advantage of that, how could they take advantage of that and find you guys?

Kelly Indrieri (37:13.496)
Yeah, absolutely. So you would just go to offleashpr.com, is O-F-F-L-E-A-S-H-P-R.com. And then right at the top, you’ll see in the menu bar, your AI score, visibility score. You just fill out a short form and you’ll get a report within three business days.

Jeff McKay (37:37.778)
Cool. And I’ll make sure we put a link in the show notes to that audit directly.

Kelly Indrieri (37:41.838)
Great. Yeah. And it is complimentary. So we encourage people to use it. It shows some really valuable, actionable next steps, which I think is the most important thing. And it goes beyond media. It is an integrated report. So we get to see it from your content, your website schema. Are you on Wikipedia? It goes there, Reddit communities, things like

Jason Mlicki (38:06.509)
That was my question as well. So thank you.

Robin Bulanti (38:10.702)
I thought the question was gonna be did video kill the radio star?

Jason Mlicki (38:13.943)
Well, that is always the question. yeah, did video kill the radio star? Don’t know. It’s funny.

Kelly Indrieri (38:14.2)
HAHAHAHA

Robin Bulanti (38:15.714)
Ha ha ha ha!

Kelly Indrieri (38:18.606)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, don’t, yeah. Now it’s, now it’s back right now. It’s what the YouTube star or the Instagram star or whatever it is. Yeah. But, but to your original question actually around that as an internet, you know, killing or are these chat, it, it is killing, you know, the internet so to speak, or, and, I don’t know if you’ve noticed lately, but several of these like open eyes coming up with Atlas, Flixity.

Robin Bulanti (38:21.688)
Hahaha.

Robin Bulanti (38:26.242)
Yeah.

Jason Mlicki (38:26.316)
Well.

Kelly Indrieri (38:47.01)
Launched comment, those are all browsers. So maybe it’s just changing, which one thing we can promise in all of this, the media landscape, marketing, iSearch is that the only constant is change, right? So you got to speak, a pulse on it and keep marching ahead and keep your information fresh and stay ahead of it.

Robin Bulanti (38:51.726)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Mlicki (39:07.341)
Those are are wise words to end on. So thank you so much. It was was a pleasure having you on the show. It a great discussion. really appreciate Kelly, your time, Robin, your time as well. And yeah, thanks for being here.

Kelly Indrieri (39:09.592)
Good.

Robin Bulanti (39:21.518)
Thanks for having us.

Kelly Indrieri (39:21.614)
Thank you for having us. Yeah, it was wonderful.